Curse

Guizzy · Oct 19, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

The original poster is right; many monks are very bad and are still worshipped because they are in high demand.

But the title of the thread is a broad generalization. Maybe you would have recieved more positive answers with a more... delicate title.

kawaii_bat · Oct 19, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Thirsty River mission

R/W <=Our tank. Apparently she was our *Evasive* tank

N/E <=Blood
E/Me <= Geomancer/Interupter
R/N <=Curse/Marksmanship
E/Mo <=Not a healer Pyromancer
Mo/R <=Me *the only healer*
The necromancers never brought BiP or BR by the way.
(Note: I'm the type of person who will really pay close attention to the other player's avatars because I realised a long time ago that no one calls their statuses.)

R/W: Hey! How come you kno I have cripl or blind when I don'T call'em?
Me: I pay attention.
E/Me: lol
We went through the gate beat the first of the many bosses. I then realised....
Me:Hey! Am I the only monk? Are you healing E/Mo?
E/Mo: Nope I'm not healing at all...
N/E: Ya you're the only healer
Me: 0_0 OMG!
R/N: Don't worry you're doing a great job up to date!
Me: >.< Hope it doesn't get worst
The N/E in the group died twice. No one else died on my watch during this mission and we had absolutely no problems other than that.
End of mission:
R/W: Woah great job everyone!
N/E: Yeah great job!
E/Mo: Especially the healer!
R/N: I second that!
Me: =^_^= <--Giddy with joy!
R/W:lol
R/W: Hahaha Nice face!
E/Me: Seriously man you where awesome, makes me want to make a monk.
Me: XD
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It all depends on the monk you get in your group. Some of em are good, some of em are bad, some of em are professionals (Like me!

)
It doesn't matter what kind of armor, weapon or skills you have. It's all about energy efficiency and paying attention to your surroundings. Someone could of had much better items, attribute distribution or FoW armor and not have done a better job that I did.

Attribute distribution:
Heal 14
Prot 10
Div 11
The skills I used:
OrisonH., H.Breeze, H.Seed, H. party, Mend ailment, Aegis, H.Boon, Res
I was wielding a:
Hale holy staff of enchanting
Fire:10-19 req6Div,+22Hlth, castspeed(10%), Enchantments(20%)

MarkyX · Oct 19, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimaXtreme

its your fault not to ask the monks beforehand.

When I invite a player to a team for PvE, I expect them to be smart enough to bring the necessecites.

Monks should always have hex removal or condition removal (or both).

KaPe · Oct 19, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

When I invite a player to a team for PvE, I expect them to be smart enough to bring the necessecites.

Monks should always have hex removal or condition removal (or both).

Did you notice cooldowns on Hex Removals? They're way too long to bother in mass hexes areas. Once per 7 seconds? By that time, the hex will expire on it's own.

MarkyX · Oct 19, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

I guess the question really is, why should I bother having monks in my party at all, if me and every other player on my team is going to have to invest skills, attribute points, and energy into doing the work that the monk should be doing anyway?

So there is less pressure on the monks.

aron searle · Oct 19, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

When I invite a player to a team for PvE, I expect them to be smart enough to bring the necessecites.

Monks should always have hex removal or condition removal (or both).

In your opinion

And if you just expect people to bring what YOU think they should bring, rather than comunicate with them prepare to be dissapointed.

Edit for poor spelling.

I lost my gold star

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

I was in a somewhat similar situation once in a titan quest. I was one of 4 monks, with 2 warriors and 2 eleys.
Because there were so many monks (I got picked up last) I just said, "Im smiting" and assumed that the other monks would be doing all the other stuff.
I brought mend ailment and RoF to trigger zeolats fire and smite hex.
I was the only one removing conditions and hexes.
Soooo we lost.

My fault? maybe, whatever. The other monks fault? maybe, whatever.
Fault is a crappy disposition. Taking responsablity is where we need to end up though. And thats what we did.
I asked, "ok, we have a prot monk between the four of us?"
No one was, but everyone wanted to try it. We decided on one and went off.
With new offensive/defencive corrdiation stradigys no one died.
Quest accomplished.
Dang, we should have done that in the first place.

But just like OP, we all assumed stuff, and we were all wrong.
Whether or not you brought your own means of survival is irralivant. (and I dont blame you,...four monks...Id been the same way on a grab and go)
Your failure, like ours, was in the lack of communication/corridation.

Side note, blind warrior is a danger to the team. Its like a dazed eley.
If your team isnt putting out damage, its taking damage longer and therefor causing monks to deplete energy...etc, etc.

Warriors can be meatshields, but if we are going to pigeon hole them into that, lets pigeon hole monks into nothing but healers too.
Warriors are knockdown specialist, steady damage dealers, and heavy spikers, killing your foes quickly...if you take care of them.
They cant do it all by themselves with just 8 skills across a few attributes.

kawaii_bat · Oct 19, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

In your opionoin

And if you just expect people to bring what YOU think they should bring, rather than comunicate with them prepare to be dissapointed.

I always ask what people would like me to bring and I make decision afterwards.

If people are selfish and want me to bring stuff to cast on them specifically I refuse.

But I really do enjoy it much more when someone *asks* me if i'm prot/heal, if I'm bringing this or that. It is my pleasure to answer them because they'll know I'm prepared.

NightOwl · Oct 19, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I agree with you, Rico. When I'm playing my (heal) monk I always have condition and hex removal, and STILL have more than enough heal power. I run Mend Condition, as I'm very rarely in the line of fire and it helps me keep my healing ability strong. There are 3 choices for hex removal, one is always on the bar.

Personally, I'd prefer it if warriors didn't bring hex/condition removal in 95% of the quests/missions. Their job is to smack the mobs and keep the agro, mine is to keep the warrior in condition to do so. If the war is doing their job properly, and has the agro, then they'll be getting hit with any interrupts that are out there and not able to cast. At least, that's my take on it.

There really is no excuse to not bring it, but I have also been noticing this trend in pve monks lately. Not too big of an issue for me, but I do make a point of leaving any conditions/hexes on the other monk if they get them...hopefully they'll get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

I'm saying this to the OP in closing, then getting the hell out of this
train wreck.

If you KNOW the classes you play don't have a way to remove conditions,
you really have no right to bitch about how others failed to bring skills to
cover YOUR shortcomings. They have to keep the entire party going, not
just you. You're a meatshield, nothing more. You are between the casters
and the baddies that want to mash them to paste. They need to keep you
ALIVE, not condition free so you can land that whole 10-12 damage on a
Mursaat. Im sorry if it seems jaded but I'm sick of hearing warriors scream
about how they're the big damage dealers of the party. Blind, Dazed, and
the like aren't 'lethal' conditions for a melee class. Just wait em out and
let the monks concentrate on healing.

He isn't blaming everything on the monks, just making a point about them bringing condition/hex removal. Only a s*&t monk gets offended when people say ANYTHING bad about ANY monk. If the tank is blinded, snared (cripple, imagined burden, etc), then they cannot keep the agro because they cannot hit/get to the mobs. Healing isn't that tough, I've beaten every mission and 90% of the quests with condition and hex removal on my bar as a heal monk, and not felt the need for any more healing than I already have (5 heals, condition/hex removal, rez).

Edit; Great post, Goonter, I like what you said there.

Yichi · Oct 19, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

The point is Rico, its not one's responsibility to take care of your character but you.

If you dont want to make the sacrifice to even bother to start to take care of yourself, then you shouldnt expect anyone else to do it either.

What you're saying is, you cant change because it would change your whole build to do so. But you want them to add in a skill, that would change their whole build aswell.

So why should they change, when you wont?

/quoted for truth

Seriously, I got tired of being in a PUG without a good monk, i play better with casters, so i built me a monk, and a damn good one. I dont run condition removal in my build as i find that as soo nas its removed, BAM!!! its right back on you. Hex removal i normally run inspired hex for energy management also. A healers job is to heal you, not protect you..... hmm prot monk anyone? Each char has a specific build and a specific role.

Why ask someone to change there whole skillset and build that they have put together that has worked to get them to that point, when you arent willing to change yours? Your char is your own responsibility. if you dont like the PUG monks, take the hench. with any other char but my monk i find they are better than most human players anyway. but note that not al lthe time when you have a condition or hex with hench thats its instantly removed, imagine that.....

aron searle · Oct 19, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

But I really do enjoy it much more when someone *asks* me if i'm prot/heal, if I'm bringing this or that. It is my pleasure to answer them because they'll know I'm prepared.

Indeed.

It would be nice if someone asked me just once if im prot or heal. So now ive gotten into the habit of saying first thing, "Hello, im pure heal". And im always prepared to try what people ask of me if they can give me a good reason.

If i hear any of this "OMG take this spell noob", I just leave (i can be thick skinned but i dont see any reason to stay with people like this, there always the type to rush rush rush aggro die).

Scourgey · Oct 19, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Not bothered to read all the posts that try to prove themselves right.

Why bother with PUGs when you can just play with henchmen? Seriously it's so much easier

kawaii_bat · Oct 19, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

If i hear any of this "OMG take this spell noob", I just leave (i can be thick skinned but i dont see any reason to stay with people like this, there always the type to rush rush rush aggro die).

If someone playing another profession other than your own has anything to say about you skill selection he can just take his own Monk take his G*dam skill and put it where the Sun don't shine.

Akathrielah · Oct 19, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

From looking at the majority of the opinions - (bring your own condition/hex removal noob) - I'm sure as hell glad that I will never have to have you guys as a monk in my team while entering Tombs or GvG.

I suppose the same people who argue that all other classes should bring hex/condition removal should argue that all support characters should bring their own form of damage as well? And no, wands don't count.

Of course the team leader should always ensure that people are bringing what they are supposed to, and to ensure they aren't bringing dross and trash like healing breeze. Sheesh.

aron searle · Oct 19, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

its all about PVE innit.

muppet

TheCrusader · Oct 19, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Most monks do suck. Period.

Its funny when someone says that monks are bad people jump to thier defense. But when people talk about warriors its all fun and games.

Yichi · Oct 19, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

From looking at the majority of the opinions - (bring your own condition/hex removal noob) - I'm sure as hell glad that I will never have to have you guys as a monk in my team while entering Tombs or GvG.

I suppose the same people who argue that all other classes should bring hex/condition removal should argue that all support characters should bring their own form of damage as well? And no, wands don't count.

Of course the team leader should always ensure that people are bringing what they are supposed to, and to ensure they aren't bringing dross and trash like healing breeze. Sheesh.

a pve monk and a pvp monk are 2 completely different animals

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 19, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

Ok, let me just briefly set the stage. I'm playing my three week old warrior, just getting his armor infused for the first time. I get into a group, we have 4 monks, an ele, ranger, and two warriors, myself included. Looking at the numbers, I figure this should be no problem, considering the amount of healing power he have compared to the difficulty of the mission, although the mission might take a long time because we'll have less firepower than normal, but that's fine with me.

And during the mission, for the mostpart, I haven't had any problems with healing. However, I run into a lot of problems with conditions and hexes. The mursaat love to use enervating charge, the stone summit and white mantle drop various other conditions, the mursaat mesmers and necros use tons of hexes, and the azures use spiteful spirit. So when I pick up something serious, usually a spiteful or a weakness, I ctrl click to let them know that I need condition or hex removal. Nothing happens. Fine, they're busy: I keep fighting. Next battle, same thing. And again. And again. I ask them if they brought condition removal, and they don't even seem to understand what I'm talking about. I mean honestly, 4 monks, and not a SINGLE one thought to bring mend ailment. Or mend condition. Or purge conditions. Or martyr. Or remove hex. Or smite hex. Or holy veil. Or anything. How can you get to level 20 in this game as a monk and not realise that you should be bringing at least one of condition remove or hex remove EVERY mission? Haven't they noticed that every second mob uses them? That they are extremely crippling to the team? I mean, don't get me wrong, using orison of healing or healing seed at the appropriate time is important too, but there is more to being a monk than just healing.

Please, if you play a monk in PvE (especially anywhere from crystal desert on) or PvP (anywhere), controlling conditions and hexes are your jurisdiction. It's time to drop the healing breeze for mend ailment, and vigorous spirit for holy veil. Your team will thank you for it.

Rico

hmm, you were in a group and you didnt discuss this before the mission? sounds like the whole party was noob.

Draygo Korvan · Oct 19, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

As a monk, i usually dont do missions with people that dont communicate what they need before a mission.

Also you cannot expect a healing monk to automatically bring any condition removal, condition removal after all is under protection, not healing.

Hex removal is slow, usually monks will reserve it for themselves to take off any backfire/soul leech etc that comes their way. Best counter for spiteful is to not attack for a little while.

Sofonisba · Oct 19, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

If it is someone’s first time through a mission, they may not know what to expect. When we head through Iron Mines or something, I’ll just throw it out there, there are a lot of knockdowns in the beginning. Perhaps a warrior decides some balanced stance is in order. Perhaps not. Either way, you cannot dictate how other people play, you just need BASIC communication. If you have intelligence about a mission, please share ahead of time; even if you are not party leader, you can be tactful and helpful. It is not that difficult.

My Heal/Prot Mo/Me will take inspired hex instead of remove/smite because, even with a 1 in inspiration magic, it is practically free to cast. But if you get more than one hex in a short period of time then you’re S.O.L., so sorry. Mend Ailment… I’ll not really use it unless it’s big-time poison or blind. (For the record, my W/Mo packs mend ailment, her only monk spell besides rez, for those times when I’m blind and the monk is busy enough keeping me/others alive.)

I will agree, there are indeed some sucky monks out there. But consider since there was no communication AT ALL before your mission began, no one can be blamed but all of you. You could have said nicely, “Hey, there’s lotsa hexing going on in this one”—or the monks could have huddled together and each assigned one other character to take care of. If word one had been spoken/typed before entering mission, you might have had a successful run. Don’t blame bad monks as much as blame all the bad, quietly bitter players who don’t speak up ahead of time.